INTERVIEW with ROCKY ATHAS
By Todd Seely 5-12-01
Texas has long been the birthplace of some of the greatest music in rock, blues and country. From the emergence of Buddy Holly in the mid-1950’s to the current popularity of artists like Pantera and the late, great Stevie Ray Vaughan-Texas has always raised a strong voice in the music world. Letting his guitar speak for him is a six-string slinger by the name of Rocky Athas, a legend in Texas rock and blues circles. Once gigging the club circuit with friends Eric Johnson and Vaughan, Rocky has lately been treading the boards with Southern rock mainstays Black Oak Arkansas. Most recently Rocky Athas has returned to the recording studio-this time, Willie Nelson’s Pedernales Studios--with world-renowned producer Jim Gaines, to lay tracks for what will be Rocky’s newest solo project. In the midst of all this activity, Rocky was kind enough to sit for a spell and tell the stories behind the music.
TS: Going back to where it all started, how long have you been playing guitar?
RA: Since about the Beatles…1966 or so. I was just a Beatle fan. When I saw them play I went “Oh, that looks cool!” So I did it.
TS: Do you still have the first guitar you ever had?
RA: No. I wish I did. Robert Ware’s still got his. Do you believe that? My first guitar was a ’68 Les Paul. Black Beauty.
TS: Was it a copy?
RA: No, it was the real deal. My mom and dad got it for me and I should have hung on to it. I kept it for twenty years, until here recently…well, in the last fifteen years.
TS: Are you self-taught or did you ever take lessons?
RA: My brother taught me how to play.
TS: Did he show you licks off records?
RA: Basically, he showed me how to play rhythm, and rhythm guitar I think was very important to learn first. I think a lot of players today, all they learn is licks, so therefore they don’t learn very good chord structures to write songs with. So I definitely learned how to play rhythm first, and then lead just came from hanging out with friends and other guitar players.
TS: Who’d you listen to when you were developing your style?
RA: Jimi Hendrix and Eric Clapton. It’s all I ever listened to. I listened to Cream and Hendrix. Those were really my favorites.
TS: When Lightning was gigging more than ever…when Gibson endorsed you…when Guild put out the Rocky Athas 1 guitar…did you finally think “Ok, I’ve hit the big time?”
RA: Yeah, kinda. I got the companies backing me. I got the companies believing in me, but I couldn’t get anybody from the record industry to really back me. I didn’t have very strong management. Therefore, I just didn’t seem to get the right deal. But as far as talent, all the companies believed in me. That’s kind of a wild situation.
TS: Most of the dozen times I’ve seen you live, you’ve been playing your Fender Strats. Do you prefer them to Gibsons?
RA: I’ve got six Stratocasters and four Les Pauls. I just love both of the guitars. But I usually end up playing the Strat 70% of the time. And the Paul for just certain songs. I think each guitar has its place in each song. The song that you heard at the room last night (High Cost Of Loving) was all Les Paul. To me it was a very aggressive song and it needed a Paul. But then if you hear the one right before it, it’s a Stratocaster. It’s just utilizing different guitar tones instead of being stuck with one, which I hear a lot of guitar players do. They get that one sound that they like. That kinda gets boring. To me, it doesn’t show any other side of the player. If there’s a real nice ballad and all of a sudden the lead break comes in and it’s a real metally tone you go “Egh!”
TS: Can you usually tell, if you’re listening to somebody else, what they’ve used on a recording?
RA: Kind of. Maybe guitar-wise. But not amps. You can’t ever tell, there.
TS: Were you inspired seeing the likes of ZZ Top, Johnny Winter, Stevie Ray and others breaking out of the Texas music scene?
RA: Sure. I think you just hear that stuff so much that a little bit of it rubs off. It just got to the point to where I was who I was. All I wanted to do was just create good music, so that’s all I looked forward to. I sure hope this goes through with Jim Gaines. I hope he can help us get a deal with it. Of course, we don’t have a record deal yet but I think this is plenty good for a record. That’s what we’re hoping.
TS: It sounds fantastic, from what I’ve heard so far.
RA: Yeah, thanks.
TS: Why do you think a contract eluded Lightning for so long?
RA: Actually, a contract did not elude Lightning. We got signed to Capricorn Records in ’77 or ’78. They paid for the whole session. We recorded the album. After we recorded the album we were home from LA for about two weeks, we got a phone call from our manager. The label went out of business. For all acts that were signed, or being signed, it was over. So basically Capricorn went out of business and there went our record deal. It kinda destroyed us. We built ourselves up to get this far, we got it and all of a sudden the label went out. That coulda been my turn, in 1978. The world could have went “Hey, this guy’s pretty good,” and watched me evolve as years went by. But it just didn’t happen that way.
TS: Were there any other offers on the table?
RA: Not really. That was the main one.
TS: Why does Texas harbor such a hot music scene? Is it something in the food?
RA: I wouldn’t really know. I bet they’re all the same in every state. There’s always gotta be somebody just as talented, or better.
TS: The South-By-Southwest festival is held annually in Austin. Have you ever participated in that?
RA: I never have. It hasn’t been in the cards yet.
TS: What inspires you, and has it changed over the years since you started?
RA: Just music that’s got…I just want to play music where each song’s got a little bit of something from the
soul. Even if it’s a rocking number. If you’re feeling aggressive, I want it to be felt aggressive. If it’s feeling like a love song, then I want it to really be felt. And I think that’s what I’ve grown to. If the song doesn’t sound real, like it’s from the heart-whether it’s rock n’ roll, blues or a ballad-I just don’t like it like I do when all your guts are in it, you know?
TS: You were a close friend of Stevie Ray Vaughan. Since his death, he’s kind of assumed the status of one of his heroes, Jimi Hendrix. What’s your take on that?
RA: I would tend to think that he sort of did as much in the 80’s as Hendrix did back then. I see a hell of a lot more people copying Stevie, all across the world, than I actually do Hendrix. Maybe it’s because people can’t copy Hendrix too good. But I’ve seen it sure has influenced a lot of people.
TS: When was the last time you spoke to Stevie Ray?
RA: The last time I spoke with him was in Poor David’s Pub. He got up and jammed with Joe Kubek that night. We talked and I said “I sure am proud of you.” He said “Well, thank you Rocky!” He gave me a hug and said “It’s good to see you.” And that was the last time I ever saw him. Talked to him, anyway.
TS: How did Jim “Dandy” Mangrum snag you for the sessions on the Black Oak album Ready As Hell?
RA: We (Lightning) opened up for him in Paris, Texas. He asked me “What are you doing? We’re looking for a guitar player.” And I liked Jim Dandy, so I thought it would be cool to play with him. We played for a while, then we split up, and then we got back together and we split up. And now I’ve done this new album with him, The Wild Bunch, which I think is a great rock n’ roll album.
TS: When you first joined Black Oak, were you asked to be a permanent member of the band?
RA: Yeah.
TS: How much did you follow the band throughout the Seventies?
RA: Oh, I definitely followed them because I couldn’t believe…who in the world…how do you find a singer like that?! You know, he’s like the front-man from Hell. So I liked them (Black Oak Arkansas) as a rock n’ roll band.
TS: Most of the early Black Oak Arkansas material was recorded with three guitarists. What kind of tinkering did you have to do with the songs in a live format?
RA: Basically it just went down to two parts, me and Rickie. That’s it. In the studio, those four or five songs we did from the old days we triple-tracked.
TS: It had taken quite a while to regain enough momentum to the point that Black Oak Arkansas could sign with Cleopatra Records and put out The Wild Bunch. Did the band ever start to wonder if it was actually gonna gel?
RA: A little bit. But we knew it was gonna happen, and when Cleopatra did it everything picked up pretty good.
TS: You played with BOA bandmate Johnnie Bolin at the Tommy Bolin tributes in Denver, Sioux City and down in Texas. What initiated your desire to participate?
RA: Well, first of all, Johnnie. And doing it with Glenn Hughes, ‘cause Glenn Hughes and I had worked together before, writing songs to try to put a project together that never got off the ground. And so I thought it would be cool to go out and do that stuff with Glenn, which I really enjoyed.
TS: For as short of rehearsal time as there was, from a fan’s perspective, that tribute band staged some of the most exciting live performances to be seen. Looking back, how do you feel about those performances?
RA: I just wish they would have supplied me with a different amp. They bought me this little cheesy 212 Marshall. It was terrible! So that’s why I ended up using the Les Paul on that whole album. I couldn’t get a good sound out of my Stratocaster, it was such a puny ass amp. That’s the only thing I hate about it-I had to play the Les Paul on everything just to get a sound. On the Texas shows I got to use my own amps.
TS: Whose idea was it to take the show on the road in Texas?
RA: It was mine and Johnnie’s, and Gregg Diamond. Gregg Diamond was the promoter on that. That went real well. We sold out a couple of cities. They were small venues, but we sold them out.
TS: Johnnie guested on your recent solo album That’s What I Know, playing on the dedication track To My Friend. What kind of vibe was there in the studio when recording that song?
RA: Oh, it’s just always the greatest. Just like here. We always get along, and we just feed off each other. The vibe was just great. Johnnie, after he heard the tape, said he got real watery-eyed after listening to it. We’re cutting it again here, and I sure hope it does that. To me it’s not a complicated song, it’s just pretty. It’s just the feelings I was having when Stevie died.
TS: Why did you record an all-instrumental album for That’s What I Know?
RA: I don’t know. I never thought about it. I just wanted to do it. There wasn’t any reason. I’d just written a lot of songs that sounded pretty cool instrumentally. I said “Why don’t we just do it, me and you, Clark?” So really it was just me and Clark Findley. We didn’t even look for a singer. Plus I just wanted to take it and have a merchandising tool at the Black Oak shows, and also on the Glenn Hughes tour to sell to people. Let them just see another side of me. I would rather just put it out like that as opposed to trying to shop it and get a deal because it’s an instrumental album. So I just put it out. If you get one of the copies and you dig it, then that’s cool. If not, it’s over. I just had fun recording it. We did it in a small studio.
TS: One of your latest projects is a group called the Bluesberries. How does it feel to be part of a band with Buddy Miles and Double Trouble’s Chris Layton and Tommy Shannon?
RA: It’s awesome! It’s really cool to have done an album with Double Trouble. That was my dream! Man, I used to watch them with my son and go “What a rhythm section. I would love to do a project with those guys.” And then it just happened. You should hear the rest of the stuff. I know you’ve got one of the testers, the advanced copy CD’s. That’s nothing compared to the rest. It’s really gonna be good. We’ll try to work out a deal where we can tour with it. Once it’s out over in Europe, do selected dates here. We just want to get it out first. And even if we don’t tour with it, it’ll still be out on the shelves. It’ll be pretty good. The album is supposed to come out in October on Ruf Records, same label as that Hendrix tribute Blue Haze. (Bluesberries track The Wind Cries Mary appears on Blue Haze.) On that album it doesn’t say Bluesberries-it says Buddy Miles and Double Trouble. My name’s on the inside. It’s cool that it’s already out and on the shelves. They already did an interview with me for Vintage Guitar that’ll be out in August, talking about it.
TS: I think there’s a great New Orleans/Neville Brothers vibe about the Bluesberries song Bayou Delta Blues. Was there ever any plan of putting horns on any of the songs?
RA: No, it’s done. We talked about doing horns, but we just ran out of time.
TS: What other sounds can we expect to hear? Something different than what’s on the sampler?
RA: You can hear more strings and piano on the other stuff that you haven’t got a chance to hear yet. From Buddy’s keyboardist Mark Leach.
TS: Some critics see the blues as kind of a limited art form. What keeps the blues fresh and exciting for you?
RA: To mix it up. You know, like Clapton does? You’ll be listening to one of his albums, and oh God he does the blues so good! And then the next song he just gets up and kicks ass. Or it might even be a ballad like the one he wrote for his son (Tears In Heaven). That’s what I want to do. I don’t want to be stuck doing every single song as strictly blues. You know-here’s a fast blues, here’s a slow blues, here’s a medium blues, here’s a shuffle. After a while, then you wear it out. Just like if every cut was a fast rock n’ roll number. No diversity.
TS: At this point, you’re in the studio with noted producer Jim Gaines and a band of musicians you’ve worked with before. Tell me about the newest project?
RA: This is gonna be really killer. Me and Johnnie…now, Clark Findley is just a studio cat. He won’t go out and do dates. So even if we go out and do dates with this I’ll have to find a keyboard player that’ll go out and do the live dates. It’s real comfortable working with Clark because he’s there in Dallas, and I’m able to go work parts up with him. It’s very convenient, plus I think he’s a real good keyboard player. The plan is to try to get a record deal and go out and do something with this, cause this is kinda what my dream has been.
TS: Do you have all the ideas worked out pretty much beforehand, or do you do a lot of writing in the studio?
RA: Yeah, we did pre-production. We went to a studio beforehand and worked it out. But Jim Gaines is shuffling around the order. Put a chorus here, move the lead break to here. He’s kinda shifting things around. But for the most part, we worked up everything.
TS: What’s the new project going to be called?
RA: So far, it’s just Rocky Athas. It’s no different than if you go buy a Kenny Wayne Shepherd album. He may not be singing, but it’s Kenny Wayne Shepherd. That’s how we’re doing it at this point. It could change.
TS: Lanny Cordola was engineer for The Wild Bunch, and he’s a guitarist himself. Jim Gaines has worked with other notable guitarists like Neal Schon, Carlos Santana and Steve Miller. Does it make it any easier, when someone like that comes into the studio, to convey what you want?
RA: Yes indeed. Yeah, absolutely.
TS: You worked with Jim Gaines before, on the Bluesberries project. Had you crossed paths prior to that?
RA: No.
TS: How’d you hook up with Jim?
RA: He’d worked with Chris Layton and Tommy Shannon before. And then Gregg Diamond got in touch with him, and it all just came together. Tommy’s supposed to come do one of these tracks.
TS: How much easier does that make working together on this project?
RA: It makes it like I already know him. It’s like we’re friends. I love working with him. He gets great sounds.
TS: What’s in your CD player these days?
RA: John Fogerty, The Beatles…Filter. I like it all. Of course, I do have the Best Of Eric Clapton and Cream and all that, but I listen to it all. I love Filter’s new album. I don’t do anything that’s like it. I just can’t get over how cool that sounds.
TS: Your internet website is gaining momentum and expanding. How much easier does it make to reach out to a widening fanbase?
RA: I don’t know, I guess with a record deal on this it will probably reach out to more than what I’ve done with Black Oak.
TS: What’s been your proudest musical moment so far?
RA: Getting voted Top Ten Guitarist in Texas by Buddy Magazine.
TS: Musically, have you accomplished everything you’ve set out to do?
RA: We’re not even close. This is the first phase of it. With Black Oak, they only get to see one side of me. But hopefully on this they’ll get to see a bunch of different sides of my playing, you know? Cause I can do blues, and I can do uptempo rock songs or a ballad. You should put it all together to where you listen to the CD and it’s gonna be an interesting one. You know as well as I do that if you put on a blues album after about five or six of them you go “Got anything else?” Three chords kinda wear you out after awhile. But, I love them. I love blues, cause it’s the first thing I ever played and learned on. But I also love melodic rock. Just like a Clapton album. That’ll show more diversity. People will get to see other sides of me that you don’t get to see. You haven’t heard the ballads that we’ve done. And we don’t ever get to do that with Black Oak. Everything’s just straight ahead.
TS: What’s next for Rocky Athas?
RA: Just this. I’ll take the one thing at a time.
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